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Discussione: [OFFICIAL THREAD] Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire (Ritorno ad Eora... e al Crowdfunding)

  1. #151
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Il rovescio della medaglia pero' e' che dipendi dalla varieta' offerta dai devs.

    Nel senso, immagina armi con proprieta' particolari, ma non al punto da avere meccaniche dedicate, i classici oggetti gialli di pillars invece dei soulbound(cut.)
    Guarda, sono convinto che nonostante i vantaggi evidenti dell'hand placed loot,|è sostanzialmente impossibile che in un gioco qualasiasi ci sia abbastanza equp per supportare tutte le possibili build pensate dai giocatori dall'inizio alla fine dell'avventura. Parliamo di numeri troppo alti...

    E sono d'accordo con te quando dici che il crafting debba supplire a questa mancanza. Il fatto è che non credo che consentire di potenziare ogni arma o armatura che si trova senza limiti sia il modo giusto di farlo. Io lavorerei al contario: consentendo cioè di modificare il loot, non potenziarlo, per adattarlo a specifiche esigenze DOPO averlo trovato/acquistato.
    In questo modo trovare l'alabarda masterwork del caso resta comunque una bella scoperta, anche se non possiede l'abilità innanta che vuoi tu, perché tanto quella abilità innata gliela puoi dare con una runa/gemma/reliquia (runa/gemma/reliquia che devi sempre lootare o smantellare da un'altra arma che già possiedi).

    In questo modo porti avanti per tutta l'avventura un "concetto" di arma o armatura (tipo la lancia ammazzadraghi o la corazza super leggera), ma continui ad essere interessato alla scoperta di nuovi pezzi che possono incarnare quel concetto, dopo aver subito le modifiche del caso, o se sei fortunato così come li trovi
    Ultima modifica di Feanor83 : 07-03-2017 alle ore 11.15.04
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  2. #152
    Malato di Ruolo L'avatar di gugand
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    Il crafting a me viene a noia. Mi sembra di perdere tempo a cercare di crearmi tutto l'equipaggiamento ad hoc, cosa possibile di solito a punti avanzati del gioco quando finalmente si è plasmato il proprio personaggio e si ha la giusta conoscenza del mondo di gioco e cosa conviene fare o no. Diventa noioso se poi serve solo come potenziamento e non per dare abilità speciali.
    L'unico craft che apprezzo sono oggetti unici che possono essere costruiti come risultato di una quest, magari avendo l'opzione di quale oggetto ottenere da materiali unici.

  3. #153
    Shoeless God of War L'avatar di Darkless
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    Il crafting a me viene a noia. Mi sembra di perdere tempo a cercare di crearmi tutto l'equipaggiamento ad hoc, cosa possibile di solito a punti avanzati del gioco quando finalmente si è plasmato il proprio personaggio e si ha la giusta conoscenza del mondo di gioco e cosa conviene fare o no. Diventa noioso se poi serve solo come potenziamento e non per dare abilità speciali.
    L'unico craft che apprezzo sono oggetti unici che possono essere costruiti come risultato di una quest, magari avendo l'opzione di quale oggetto ottenere da materiali unici.
    ... che è quello che ho detto io. Vedo che su questo siamo d'accordo.
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

  4. #154
    Toshin L'avatar di Raizen
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    Il crafting a me viene a noia. Mi sembra di perdere tempo a cercare di crearmi tutto l'equipaggiamento ad hoc, cosa possibile di solito a punti avanzati del gioco quando finalmente si è plasmato il proprio personaggio e si ha la giusta conoscenza del mondo di gioco e cosa conviene fare o no. Diventa noioso se poi serve solo come potenziamento e non per dare abilità speciali.
    L'unico craft che apprezzo sono oggetti unici che possono essere costruiti come risultato di una quest, magari avendo l'opzione di quale oggetto ottenere da materiali unici.
    Idem.
    Raizen Machine ® Specs:

    CASE: Cooler Master 690 III - PSU: XFX XTR Series 650W Full Modular 80 Plus Gold - CPU: Intel Core i7 4770K - MoBo: ASRock Z97 Extreme4 - RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Series — 16GB DDR3 1866MHz C9 - GPU: Asus STRIX GTX 980 OC Ed. - HD: Samsung SSD 850 PRO 512GB - Monitor: Iiyama ProLite XB2779QS-B1 2560 x 1440 - Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Core - Keyboard: Cooler Master Quickfire Ultimate - Headset: Ozone Attack Snow Ed.

  5. #155
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    batbrobeyond asked:
    Can we get any details on the types of systems the PoE pen & paper RPG will feature? I'm excited to run a game for my friends and already brainstorming ideas.

    Sure. My goals with the system are to create something that captures the the spirit of the setting and is a more flexible and simulative than something like D&D. Because I know some people will complain about this, let me restate something I earnestly believe:
    It is within the power of any DM out there to run an A/D&D game in Eora with minimal work.
    If you want to play A/D&D in the setting of Pillars of Eternity, you don’t have do a whole lot to the core mechanics of most editions to make that viable and fun for your group. So, personally, I’m not interested in making an A/D&D adaptation of the PoE ruleset. Instead, I’m going to make something I think combines a lot of gameplay elements I think are cool and fit the world well.
    The game will use standard RPG/AD&D dice. All of them. If you buy a standard set of RPG dice at any ol’ RPG shop, you have what you’ll need: d4, d6, d8, d10/100, d12, d20. Most checks will use 2d10 and add modifiers.
    One of the first things I decided about the TTRPG is that groups should decide on a cause. The cause is the common rallying point for the campaign’s players. It may be a home, a person (a superior, wealthy patron, the young heir to a noble house, etc.), a society, or an accomplishment. The group defines the cause so their characters and stories can have focus.
    Backgrounds are a large part of character creation: defining the character’s childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, and beyond. Backgrounds form the foundational narrative elements and stats that you build up over time. Backgrounds will not be quite as wild and varied as in Burning Wheel, but I’m taking inspiration from both Burning Wheel and Darklands for them.
    The system is classless and puts a heavy emphasis on a wide variety of skills, from Astronomy and Glazing to Intrigue and Quarterstaff. Skill tests can be obstacle-based, versus, investigative, or seasonal. Obstacle and versus tests are pretty familiar to most people who have played RPGs and focus on static challenges and actively opposed checks. These tests can typically benefit from assistance, which comes in the form of d4s or d6s handed to the player by the assistant (similar to Burning Wheel).
    Investigative tests give clues and information to the character with the highest relevant test. It’s most useful for mystery scenarios where the focus is not on whether or not you find a clue (often resulting in dead ends in a lot of RPGs), but how you reason out the significance of the clues you find. Most of the inspiration from this comes from the Gumshoe series.
    Seasonal tests are for downtime activity like research and practice. If you’ve played through Pendragon or Torchbearer’s Winter Phase or Ars Magica’s seasonal activities, that’s what this is like. Characters are intended to grow and change with time, both in personality and mechanically, so downtime is a big element of how a character develops.
    Advancement happens primarily through experience that characters earn through either adventure sessions or downtime sessions. Adventure experience is spent directly on skills that were used during the session and downtime experience is earned through seasonal activities (reading books, training, studying a magical phenomenon, communing with an adra pillar, etc.). Most of these mechanics come from Ars Magica.
    Abilities, powers, spells, etc. in the book form the foundation of special tools the players have at their disposal, but I want each power source to have its own guidelines for improvisation, experimentation, and long-term breakthroughs. All of this heavily inspired by Ars Magica.
    I’m still thinking through the combat mechanics. In a TTRPG, combat pacing is a serious concern, so I’m trying to weigh the pros and cons of various approaches. The math involved will be addition, subtraction, halving/rounding, and doubling. There won’t be Pillars CRPG-style percentages to deal with. Damage is less likely to be about wearing down hit point pools, more about fatigue and discrete wounds that wear characters down.
    Well, that’s what I have so far, which is insane and way out of scope, but there you have it.
    Sawyer sul gioco di ruolo da tavolo di PoE.

    Praticamente non c'entra una minchia col videogioco. Sembrano le prove generali per il suo Rpg storico
    Ultima modifica di Feanor83 : 29-03-2017 alle ore 10.16.00
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  6. #156
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Balance in Single-Player CRPGs
    Someone on twitter asked me this question and I think it’s worth answering in a longer form than twitter allows. I’ve already answered this question in brief and in video form at various points, but I think it’s important to address here:
    Something that bothered me from PoE was the constant updating to classes and races to balance them. Did you guys worry about this>
    In Baldur’s Gate I or II or even the Icewind Dale series? I mean really who cares if one class is OP or Race or Hybrid class? >>
    You guys are making a single-player RPG not an MMO or game with a online multiplayer component.
    Variants of this question are common in single-player CRPG circles. The implication is that balance is important in an MMO/multiplayer environment but it is not important (or so much less important that it doesn’t merit addressing in patches) in a single-player CRPG.
    I would like to repudiate this in two general ways: 1) I will argue that overall balance is important and valuable for players in single-player CRPGs 2) I will argue that individual CRPG players and CRPG communities overall do not present consistent objections to tuning and this undermines the general complaint. It is not the responsibility of individuals or communities to be consistent in their feedback, but it is the job of the designer to design, which means considering the needs of the audience by listening to and interpreting feedback on a broader scale.
    Yes, Balance is Important in Single-Player CRPGs

    I think it’s easy enough to make the first point through reductio ad absurdum: why not give AD&D fighters 1d4 hit points per level, a worse THAC0 than wizards, and worse saving throws than any other class? Obviously it’s because playing them would feel terrible. Why don’t we give all of the enemies attacks that do 1-3 damage, a quarter of the hit points of the PCs, and rock-bottom defenses? Because playing through that would feel boring for anyone who had the slightest interest in combat content and systems.
    Some may say, “Hey, no one is arguing that balance isn’t important at all,” but in fact that is what many people directly say or suggest. Maybe they don’t really mean it (which I will get to later), but that is often what comes up. If we can agree that some degree of balance is important, then there’s no point in suggesting anything to the contrary and we’re really just debating to what degree is balance important and worth a) design consideration pre-launch and b) patching.
    In my view, balance in a single-player CRPG is important to the extent that it allows players making different character and gear choices to be viable through the content of the game. It is always important to remember that system design (including class, race, ability/spell, and item design) is one part of the equation. Content makes up the other big part (setting aside UI/UX for purposes of this discussion).
    When our area and system designers build encounters, they have to be built around an understanding of party capabilities: their overall statistics, their available gear, their consumable items, and their various abilities. In a traditional D&D-style CRPG, this spectrum of possibility gets wider and wider the higher the levels get and the more gear becomes available to the player. The less balanced individual choices are from level to level and item to item, the more difficult it is for area designers to design content that works for a spectrum of choices.
    It Was Actually a Problem in the Infinity Engine Games

    One of the questions was, “Did you guys worry about this in… even the Icewind Dale series?” Well, no. I certainly didn’t worry about it in the original Icewind Dale. I assumed everyone who picked up the game was as conversant as me in AD&D 2nd Ed/Forgotten Realms rules and lore, had played hundreds of hours of it in tabletop with similarly aggressive psychogamers, and had weathered fair but diabolically brutal DMs whose scenarios demanded quick thinking and ruthless min-maxing tactics.
    You might not believe the number of Black Isle QA testers (and developers) who yelled or cried in anger, virtually or in person, about how difficult some of the IWD scenarios were. One in particular was the Idol/priest fight in Lower Dorn’s Deep. I had a tester hootin’ and hollerin’ about how it was “impossible”, how he had tried to beat it for two hours and couldn’t make any progress. It was a scenario that I and my office mate (Kihan Pak) both beat on the first try.
    image
    On Heart of Winter, Burial Isle practically split QA in half. One half thought it was a cakewalk. The others acted like they were being forced to dive into a swimming pool full of razor blades.
    image
    The dividing factor was system mastery. AD&D 2nd Edition (and 3E) are systems with a boatload of trap choices, inherently bad builds, garbage spells/feats, and generally inferior options. They’re not presented as inferior options to the player. They’re presented as options… that turn out to be implicitly awful even in the best circumstances. To the next part of the question, “I mean really who cares if one class is OP or Race or Hybrid class?” The answer is, “The person being brutalized by content designed for the OP classes/races because they picked the ‘bad’ option.”
    The broader that spectrum of choices is for players, the more difficult it is to design content that will be at a similar level of challenge for those players given any given combination of choices within that spectrum. And to restate what I wrote before, the balance is mostly important to the extent that viability, i.e., the ability to get through the content, is supported. BG, BG2, IWD, and IWD2 often failed that test. Once viability is addressed, I’m not particularly concerned about balance.
    Tuning Down High-Powered Outliers

    The exceptions are abilities and items that are so incredibly powerful across the board that it’s almost impossible to make any content challenging with them in play. If we design content to be challenging with those abilities/items in mind, any players who lack those abilities and items will effectively be crit path blocked. Their game has either ended or become so incredibly difficult that it’s no longer enjoyable. And if we don’t design content with the overpowered abilities and items in mind, any player who coincidentally or intentionally uses those items effectively no longer has any challenge going through the game. It becomes an unlabeled Easy difficulty slider rendering all other options/choices irrelevant.
    In those cases, I advocate reducing the power of the abilities/items so players don’t trip over “Hey I guess I win” options and our testers can still use them in playthroughs and give meaningful feedback. There is one salient example I can think of: sniper rifles in Fallout: New Vegas. In Fallout 3, Bethesda had given sniper rifles a x5 crit rate modifier. Keep in mind that any attack from stealth (e.g. shooting an unaware target with a sniper rifle from long range) is automatically a crit. The x5 multiplier made even standard/close range combat shots have an incredibly high chance of critting. I didn’t notice that sniper rifles had that multiplier and it didn’t come up in testing prior to release. In release, players noticed it quickly and sniper rifles became the de facto way to handle most encounters. Why use a 12.7mm SMG or hunting pistol when any shot from a sniper rifle was likely to crit and do 90+ damage?
    image
    In one of the first patches, I reduced the crit rate multiplier to x2. There was initially a lot of complaining about it, as there always is when anything is tuned down, no matter how overpowered, but the sniper rifle retained its role and continues to be used in that role. It’s a sniper rifle. It’s good at sniping. It doesn’t need to be great at close range.
    Inconsistent Player Feedback

    There is one trend about player feedback regarding tuning that’s hard to argue against: communities generally complain about tuning anything down but applaud (or at least do not complain about) tuning things up. I can tune up 10 things in a patch and detune one thing and will hear far more feedback about the one thing that was detuned, no matter how marginal or necessary that detuning was. If there’s negative feedback about tuning something up, it’s usually because players feel it needs to be tuned up more.
    In Patch 3.03 for Pillars of Eternity, Matt Sheets and I tuned up seven rogue abilities, five barbarian abilities, and a variety of other spells and abilities. Players generally seemed to like this, though some wished the rogue abilities had been tuned up more.
    In Patch 3.04, the soulbound dagger The Unlabored Blade had a bug fixed where its 10% Firebug proc was never firing. Two weeks later, Patch 3.05 reduced the 10% proc to 3%. This was a change I had requested for 3.04 but it had been overlooked. I requested the change because daggers have a fast attack rate and that dagger has a +20% attack rate enchantment.
    image
    Which set of changes do you think I heard more feedback about? If you guessed the marginal drop in proc rate on the soulbound item that had only worked properly for two weeks, you’d be right. The rogue and barbarian changes affect far more players and more significantly, but “loss” (even if imagined for most players) weighs more heavily.
    Despite having a reputation for only detuning, I tuned many more abilities and items up in PoE patches (and in F:NV patches, as well as the JSawyer mod) than down. Players remember the losses more than the gains, but both are a necessary part of the tuning process.
    I could abstain from tuning, but I don’t think most players would benefit from that. Players remember early Diablo 3 tuning as particularly bad, but the game at launch (especially the economy and itemization) was poorly balanced, as Travis Day elaborated on in his 2017 GDC talk. In the long term, Diablo 3′s economy and itemization today are much better than they were at launch and I believe most players benefit from and appreciate that. Even if you effectively never played D3 as a multiplayer game, you still benefit from that.
    I don’t expect players or communities to be consistent in their feedback, but as the director and, in many cases, the lone system designer, I have to make decisions on more than just the volume of feedback on any particular topic. Changes that make bad options better are almost universally good. Changes that make overpowered options worse are often still a good idea if I believe more players will benefit from the change. I didn’t hesitate to reduce the Petrified damage bonus from x4 to x2 in Pillars of Eternity because that affliction was far and away the best way to deal with difficult encounters, either through the Gaze of the Adragan spell or trap.
    I Will Tune Again

    Just to make this clear, while there will always be a point where I stop tuning a particular game, I’m never going to stop using patches as an opportunity to balance items, abilities, classes, encounters, enemies, etc. I’ve been house-ruling and tuning games since I noticed trap options and OP garbage in 2nd Edition AD&D in middle school. I re-wrote 5th Edition Ars Magica’s certamen system because it’s a cool idea that’s really uninteresting in play. I re-wrote Pathfinder/3.X’s armor system because, as many players have noted, it doesn’t actually provide many interesting options.
    If I think players will benefit from adjusting the rules or the content and there’s an opportunity to make those changes, I’m going to do it. I certainly don’t expect players to like all of the changes I make, but if you object to the idea of post-launch balancing, you should probably never play any of the games I direct. I’m always going to tune them, if possible.
    Thanks for reading.
    Pillars sarà anche poco meno noioso di un Dragon Age a caso sul piano dei contenuti, ma a livello di sistemi di gioco Sawyer ne capisce. Poco da dire. Questo post è la risposta più esaustiva che ho letto in giro a tutti quei dementi (che abbondano sul codex) per cui "il bilanciamento in un RPG single-player non è importante"
    Ultima modifica di Feanor83 : 01-06-2017 alle ore 12.40.46
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  7. #157
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Novità varie
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  8. #158
    AnnihilatoR L'avatar di Pendragon
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    alcune molto apprezzate devo dire, soprattutto il filtro per pg. Mi preoccupa pero' un po' la storia del retargeting delle spells, credo che renda troppo facile colpire esattamente dove si vuole con quelle che hanno un lungo casting e su cui bisognava prevedere come si sarebbero mossi gli avversari. Sembra troppo vantaggioso per il player rispetto all'AI.

    In ogni caso ben venga il polish generale all'interfaccia.
    Sacred is the... gift that they have, without knowing
    Serenity... is knowing it's safe from destruction of time

    Close your eyes and just believe again
    There's a god, does he remember when
    We were young and faith was not pretend... anymore

  9. #159
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Ma, non mi preoccupa più di tanto, devo dire. E' bilanciabile allungando i tempi di casting la cosa. Senza contare che un nemico troppo vicino a te o a un membro del party anche col retargeting resta un problema, e che l'hai può fare lo stesso del giocatore.

    In generale tutto quello che è pensato per gestire meglio 5 PG in più o meno tempo reale lo vedo bene.
    Ultima modifica di Feanor83 : 06-06-2017 alle ore 19.51.05
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  10. #160
    Spettro L'avatar di HeinrichDM
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    Ma, più che altro, lanciare le spell nel punto giusto al momento giusto è sempre stato un problema solo nel rtwp. In realtà non mi dispiace la cosa.

  11. #161
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Intervista a Sawyer e gameplay dall'E3.
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  12. #162
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Stesso video di prima ma con commento degli sviluppatori
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  13. #163
    AnnihilatoR L'avatar di Pendragon
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    A me sembrano sulla buona strada decisamente, vedo effettivamente un prodotto molto piu' rifinito sotto tutti i punti di vista, ovviamente pero' le parti fondamentali: level/encounter design e storia/writing bisogna vedere su che livelli si assesteranno.

    Sono comunque molto fiducioso sulla buona riuscita finale.
    Sacred is the... gift that they have, without knowing
    Serenity... is knowing it's safe from destruction of time

    Close your eyes and just believe again
    There's a god, does he remember when
    We were young and faith was not pretend... anymore

  14. #164
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Già, FORSE con 5 PG e modifiche mirate all'UI e alla velocità degli scontri, il tutto risulterà meno clusterfuck. Poi pare si siano messi sotto sulle fazioni e sul quest design, con l'intento di fare una cosa alla New Vegas.
    Ma è l'encouter design che farà sul serio la differenza. Quello del primo era noioso da morire...
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  15. #165
    Shoeless God of War L'avatar di Darkless
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    A me sembrano sulla buona strada decisamente
    Concordo. Ho apprezzato particolarmente anche i nuovi scontri più dinamici, come il golem che afferra e sbatte via il pg.
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

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