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Discussione: [Official Thread] Kingdom Come: Deliverance

  1. #286
    Spettro L'avatar di 92Ale92
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    Al di là del combat continuo a trovare tutto il progetto troppo ambizioso. spero di sbagliarmi.
    Credo tu abbia centrato il vero problema del gioco...

  2. #287
    Malato di Ruolo L'avatar di gugand
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    La divisione del gioco in 3 dovrebbe aiutarli a ridurre parecchio i problemi. Al giorno d'oggi non dovrebbe essere improponibile l'obbiettivo che si sono posti. Se iniziano con un piccolissimi agglomerati con un totale di poche decine di PNG credo che riusciranno a fare qualcosa di decente. Una volta trovata la formula per il piccolo poi possono allargarsi.
    Dato che stanno continuando a sviluppare credo che possiamo ancora sperare nell'uscita, magari con i buchi della IA tappati da parti scriptate.

  3. #288
    AnnihilatoR L'avatar di Pendragon
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    Aspetto molto di più M&B2 sinceramente, come ha fatto notare Darkless hanno rifatto da capo uno dei pochi punti deboli del gioco, gli assedi, e sembra abbiano migliorato parecchio anche le possibilità fuori dal combat per quanto riguarda intrighi e il sandboxing, senza contare finalmente una grafica decente. Spero solo che l'ottimizzazione sia fatta bene però, altrimenti sarà uno stutterfest.
    Riguardo Kingdom, anche io ho la sensazione che sarà troppo lento e macchinoso per essere anche divertente. Spero di essere smentito, ovviamente.
    Sacred is the... gift that they have, without knowing
    Serenity... is knowing it's safe from destruction of time

    Close your eyes and just believe again
    There's a god, does he remember when
    We were young and faith was not pretend... anymore

  4. #289
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Il combat system è macchinoso si, come lo era quello di Severance per esempio.
    È pensato per l'uno contro uno e secondo me in quello funziona bene con il pad in mano, proprio per la complessita' di fondo del sistema. Nell'uno contro molti (o anche pochi) si avverte tutta la "pesantezza'" del modello e si finisce di default male, ma per precisa scelta di design, e sempre che non si abbia un deciso vantaggio nell'equip (full plate contro nemici armati alla buona). La cosa francamente mi sta più che bene visto quello che si propone di fare il gioco.
    Sono altri gli aspetti di KC che trovo inutilmente realistici...
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  5. #290
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    Fancamente mi sembra macchinoso anche per l'1 vs 1.
    Severance era lento e c'era il fattore stamina (che pesava infinitamente di più rispetto ai DS) ma non lo definirei macchinoso. Avevi l'attacco normale e le combo da impararti a memoria. Qua se non sbaglio voglion implementare tutta una serie di attacchi diversi e contromosse.
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

  6. #291
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Ci sono combo, ma molto brevi, da due, tre colpi (come nella realtà). C'è la stamina, che ha un ruolo importante, e ci sono le contromosse da fare col tempismo giusto. Ma la parata di suo non è direzionale, cosa che già rende tutto molto meno complicato di quello che sembra.
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  7. #292
    Ladro della Rosa Bianca L'avatar di Dalfred
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    Certamente ma per lo meno in terza persona riuscivi a tenere sott'occhio tutta la situazione.
    Al di là del combat continuo a trovare tutto il progetto troppo ambizioso. spero di sbagliarmi.
    Da finanziatore del progetto non posso che concordare e le varie alpha che ho provato mi continuano a dare questa impressione. Ammetto che sono 3 mesi che non lo aggiorno, dovrò provarlo ora per capire se sono migliorati o meno

    P.S. In compenso il video dell'assedio di mount & blade 2 m'ha gasato devo ammettere.
    [/quote]
    Mha ... da amante di Mount & Blade e di Warband (in cui ho giocato per 4 anni) posso solo dire che aspetto Bannerlord con ansia ma fino ad oggi quanto fatto vedere lascia un po' perplessi:
    in 4 anni di sviluppo dai filmati che abbiamo visto ci sono sì cose carine (come gli assedi finalmente con la possibilità di distruggere i castelli) ma ci sono purtroppo le problematiche che affliggono da sempre la serie:
    - animazioni terribili;
    - AI dubbia (nei filmati degli assedi guardate bene le seguenti cose: 1- I fanti a terra, in attesa che si aprano strade di accesso al castello, si guardano in giro senza nemmeno avere lo scudo alzato con il risultato di essere facili prede degli arcieri nemici;2 - Sulle mura il combattimento è la solita ressa-alla-cazzo-di-cane in cui i png non fanno altro che correre gli uni contro gli altri con lo scudo alzato e tirare qualche fendente ogni tanto (con il problema che essendo tutti i png con questo comportamento si vede solo gente che si spinge l'un l'altro e basta);3 - Pathfinding e macchine di assedio: notare come tutti i fanti attaccanti siano fermi poi man mano che muore il compagno che spinge la macchina di assedio si spostano. Ma cazzo: falli spostare subito no? Se ne stanno fermi a fare cosa? (a prendersi le frecce nemiche probabilmente).
    - Mancanza totale del multiplayer. Questa cosa è la peggiore, stiamo tutti sperando sia una trollata che all'ultimo minuto sarà invece svelata.
    - feedback dei combattimenti rimasto a Warband: guardate un combattimento 1 vs 1 di Bannerlord e poi guardatene uno di Mordhau ...

    Insomma: han fatto vedere nei filmati features come le espressioni facciali (...) ed il mini gioco della dama (......) quando la comunity richiedeva migliorie al multiplayer e soprattutto al combattimento melee.
    Restiamo speranzosi ed intanto godiamoci altro.

    Per tornare IT: KD sembra davvero ambizioso, sono curioso di aggiornare l'alpha e riportarvi le impressioni

  8. #293
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Sul codex apprezzano...

    Kingdom Come: Deliverance​

    [by JarlFrank; image captions by Bubbles]

    Compared to last year's Gamescom, Warhorse's presence was much less significant. They had only one room compared to last year's three, which was a darkened presentation room with a TV screen on the front wall and a suit of plate armor in the corner; the hands-on room and the lounge where I interviewed Vavra last year were missing, and this time Dan wasn't even there personally. On the other hand, this year's presentation showed how much progress the game has made since then, and the reduced presence was likely due to the company focusing on finishing the game instead.

    Where last year, I still asked Vavra how he's going to fill the game with content, as a historically correct game will lack genre staples such as dungeons and magic equipment, this year I left the presentation room with a much clearer picture of what the gameplay is going to be like. And that which we were shown looked pretty damn good. It was, overall, one of the most impressive presentations at Gamescom - mostly because it was an actual live gameplay presentation rather than just a pre-recorded video, and the outcome of actions wasn't always certain.

    The gameplay we were shown was an infiltration quest into an enemy camp. Your liege ordered you to spy on and, if possible, sabotage a Hungarian/Cuman war camp, and how you do this is entirely up to you. "You could even convince your lord to attack right away if you don't feel like doing this quest," we are told. "Of course, that will make the fight harder as you won't know the layout of the place, and the entire garrison will be able to run to the defense, but if you want to take that risk, we let you."

    If you don't tell your liege lord to attack right away, you have a couple of different approaches in how to sabotage the place. Sneaking inside and poisoning the food is one option, killing the patrols on the roads is another. And there are multiple ways to go about these tasks, too. In this presentation, we were shown two approaches - the direct approach and the stealthy approach. One of them was successful, the other ended in death. I think you can guess which was the lethal one.

    "When you have a dagger, you can do stealthkills from behind," the presenter says. "You can't parry with a dagger, and it's a pretty useless weapon in combat, but it allows you to take out your enemies without a fight if you manage to sneak up on them. If you don't have a dagger, you can choke out an enemy until he's unconscious, but beware: he's going to wake up and alert his mates after a couple of minutes!"

    That mechanic can work to our advantage, too. We're not shown this in the presentation, but we're told that this can create an effective distraction: you could choke out a patrolman, wait until he wakes up and runs to the camp where he'll report the incident to his comrades, and they'll come out to the place where you hit him and search the area. This will leave the camp with half as many guards as usual, and you can sneak in through a backdoor and stroll through a mostly empty camp, sabotaging the place to your heart's content.

    After the patrolman got choked out, the player walks towards the front gate, which is an incredibly stupid move (and only done to show us how incredibly stupid it actually is). The player is clad in dark clothes - armor is noisy as fuck and will make sneaking almost impossible, but not wearing armor will make you very vulnerable in straight-up combat - and the gate guards tell him to piss off because he obviously has no business there. The player approaches anyways, and the guards rush up to him with weapons drawn. Unarmored and outnumbered, it doesn't take him long to be sliced to bits. "The frontal assault is obviously not a good idea," the presenter says with a smirk and a wink, "so this time, we're going to try something different."

    [​IMG]
    If you think this looks cool, watch some combat footage from the alpha. You'll change your mind quickly.​

    The game is reloaded, and this time the player stabs the patrolman, hides the body, picks up his halberd and follows a second patrolman - this one is mounted, and the player uses the halberd to show how effective polearms are at unhorsing mounted troops. With the halberd, the player pushes the guy from his horse and he falls to the ground; the whole thing is really nicely animated, and it's great to see polearms receiving some well-deserved love in this game. They are powerful weapons that grant you the advantage of reach, and even though the patrolman manages to get to his feet, he doesn't stand a chance against us with his sword.

    "In tight quarters, your attacks with a polearm will be severely limited, of course. When there's a wall right next to you, you won't be able to swing it and will be restricted to stabs. We're trying to give each class of weapon its own advantages and disadvantages, and in some situations you might prefer one type of weapon over the other. They don't just have different stats, they actually have different uses."

    Then, the body is stipped and the player puts on the patrolman's armor: a full set of Cuman armor, including helmet, which will make for a great disguise if we try to infiltrate the camp. "We should also take care to hide the body, because the guys in the camp will realize at some point that their patrolmen are missing," says the presenter. "If there are ten patrolmen around a camp, and you kill every single one of them without being detected, after a while they'll send out some men to look for the missing patrols. Our AI doesn't only notice dead bodies, they also notice when a post that should have a soldier positioned there is empty."

    With the freshly looted Cuman armor on, the player approaches the gate and nobody pays him any attention, at least initially. "Sometimes, one of the gate guards will approach you and ask you a question. We've had presentations where this didn't happen, but I hope it happens now because we can show the dialogue skills if he does."

    We're lucky and one of the guards approaches us, asking a question in Hungarian. Obviously, he thinks we're one of his comrades, because we're clad from head to toe in Cuman armor. "Your character is Czech, and his native language is Czech. He's not fluent in Hungarian, so if you say the wrong thing now, you might compromise your disguise. As you can see, there are four dialogue options here, and three of them have a symbol next to them: the symbol represents the governing dialogue skill, and a red, yellow or green bar around it represents the chance of success."

    The first dialogue choice lets you answer in Czech, which doesn't have a dialogue skill associated with it at all. Because, obviously, that is the stupid choice that will blow your cover immediately. The next is a speech check that lets your character attempt to answer in Hungarian; it's green because the character's speech skill is quite high and the gate guard isn't very suspicious of you. The next option is "growl at him", which is governed by the intimidation skill (and which has a low chance of success), while the last option is to just ignore the guy, which has an even lower chance of success.

    The player answers in Hungarian and manages to form a coherent enough sentence to satisfy the gate guard. Now, he's free to explore the camp without any suspicion. The player walks around the camp for a bit, and then decides to put some poison into a pot of goulash ("It's goulash," says the presenter, "because they're Hungarians, so of course there's a pot of goulash in the camp!"), then goes outside again and advances time.

    Advancing time takes quite a long time in this game. Each hour took between 5 and 10 seconds to pass. "We're still trying to optimize it," we're told, "but there's a reason it's that slow. The game doesn't just skip forward for an hour, it actually simulates NPC schedules. Some of the men in the camp might decide to eat, while others might just sit down and relax, while others might stand guard. Their actions aren't scripted, and we can't even be sure that anyone is going to eat from the pot we've poisoned in the three hours we're waiting now."

    When the waiting is over, the player goes back into the camp and looks for any poisoned NPCs. The search takes longer than expected, but then we see a guy sitting on a chair, obviously uncomfortable. "Ah, here we go one!" the presenter says triumphantly. "You see, poisoning isn't instantaneous. This guy ate from the goulash and got the poison into his system. We don't know when he ate it, it could've been three hours ago, it could've been half an hour ago. But he's still in the first stage of poisoning: he sits down and is nauseous, and after a while he will go to bed and try to sleep off his nausea. During the sleep, he will constantly lose stamina, and after an hour or two, he will die. It will take the others a while to realize he's dead, and then they're going to check the food - because people don't just die in their sleep for no reason, and they'll try to find out why. So if you poison all the food in the camp, you can take out a handful of enemies, but you will never know how many you'll manage to get as it depends on what the NPCs decide to do. If ten guys eat goulash, those ten will die. If one guy eats goulash and nobody else touches the pot for two hours, and they discover that someone has died from food poisoning, that one guy is all you will get."

    Then, the player moves on, looking for another poisoned guy, maybe one in a later stage of poisoning. "Ah, there - yeah, go into that camp, look inside, there's someone sleeping," the presenter tells the player, "I think he could be poisoned, too, it's the middle of the day and I doubt he's sleeping because he's tired. If he's poisoned, he will die soon and then his comrades will notice and then we better get out of there because we might be asked questions when their suspicion level rises. Oh, by the way, if we have a dagger we can also silently kill sleeping characters, but I'm quite certain we'd be spotted, as we're in a busy camp at daytime right now, so we won't try that."

    Instead, the player explores the camp some more and demonstrates another way of sabotage: there are baskets with arrows in them, which serve as ammunition for the camp's archers. You can light them on fire, and that way you can reduce the enemy's available ammo. "They don't have infinite ammunition. They have as many arrows as they have in the camp, and if you burn them all, they won't be able to shoot in the coming battle. Of course, we'll only be able to burn one basket because once it's set ablaze, it will attract everyone's attention."

    And this is what the player does: he lights the basket up, reducing the enemy's ammunition by about twenty or thirty, and sprints away. The player obviously knows the layout of the camp and heads to small a hole in the palisades, at the back of the camp, where he slips out unseen, avoiding the guards at the main entrance.

    "This is just one way to handle this quest, and I hope we managed to show you how dynamic our game is," the presenter tells us. "When you play this, you could just poison the food and then head back to your liege and start the battle, or you could only burn the ammunition, or you can do both like we just did or you can do neither and just scout out the camp without sabotaging it. It's all up to you. The more you do here, the easier the battle will be later. Every destroyed arrow won't be able to be fired by the archers, every sick or dead guard won't be able to defend the camp."

    [​IMG]
    "Man on Horse With Blurry Flowers" (Warhorse Studios, 2016)​

    And thus ends the presentation of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and it was one of the most impressive presentations at this year's Gamescom. It has come so far from last year's early build, so much more content and gameplay was implemented, and the multiple approaches to the quest we were shown looked really great.

    Last year, only the sword combat was implemented. Now, they also have polearms and daggers, and in the enemy camp we've seen a couple of guys doing some unarmed sparring with each other. Unarmed combat is non-lethal, and we were told that you can challenge most NPCs to a friendly duel if you want to.

    I really like the disguise mechanic, and the stealth gameplay looked pretty damn good. Coupled with an AI that is aware of changes - such as shunning the food if they discover one of their comrades dead from poison, or sending out some men to look for the missing patrol if you kock out or kill them all - this looks to be a game where dicking around and trying out different approaches is going to be a lot of fun.

    I'm really looking forward to the game and hope that most quests will be designed as openly as this one. And, as everyone who remembers Bethesda's pre-release Radiant AI videos knows, gameplay presentations like this can be treacherous. I really hope that all of this was as real and unscripted as we were made to believe. I'm willing to give Warhorse Studios the benefit of the doubt there. The presenter gave the impression that sometimes, he really didn't know what was going to happen, and the player was very cautious in his actions, especially when there was a danger of being detected - and they reloaded the game once, and NPC reactions were different each time.

    This made this such an interesting presentation: they actually showed some live gameplay rather than a pre-recorded video, and this showed the dynamic elements of the gameplay, such as AI reactions, much more effectively than a pre-recorded video would've done.

    If everything we were shown during this presentation makes it into the game, we'll have a real gem on our hands. Explorefags are going to love this shit.​
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  9. #294
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    Ammetto che ste cose mi fanno sbrodolare un po' ...
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  10. #295
    Shoeless God of War L'avatar di Darkless
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    Ma sarai mica metatron
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

  11. #296
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    E chi sarebbe ?

    Qui c'è l'update integrale, comunque.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...project_update

    Mi piace che gli HP sono fissi, e che la qualità delle armi non modifica il danno, ma la velocità di degradazione.
    Ultima modifica di Feanor83 : 05-09-2016 alle ore 10.21.12
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  12. #297
    Malato di Ruolo L'avatar di gugand
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    'Sto gioco sulla carta e' fin troppo bello. Mi sa che uno dei prossimi giorni riprendo in mano la demo e mi addestro seriamente al combattimento.

  13. #298
    Shoeless God of War L'avatar di Darkless
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    Citazione Messaggio inviato da Feanor83 Visualizza messaggio
    E chi sarebbe ?
    lo youtuber siciliano che fa video in inglese su armi e armature medioevali
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

  14. #299
    Spettro L'avatar di Feanor83
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    lo youtuber siciliano che fa video in inglese su armi e armature medioevali
    In pausa me lo vado a cercare per curiosità XD
    I detest elves. Like with a fucking passion. (MCA)

  15. #300
    Shoeless God of War L'avatar di Darkless
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    Citazione Messaggio inviato da Feanor83 Visualizza messaggio
    In pausa me lo vado a cercare per curiosità XD
    il suo canale:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIj...4Gja0VLO40RlOw
    Non è bello ciò che è bello
    Ma è bello ciò che a Darkless piace

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